Stay Current Forums - How to Find Dedicated Pediatric Surgery Research

I'm good. Just, uh, had a half day today, so it's kind of nice. Just operating in the morning, coming home early, nothing better. Dude, that's a very early day for general general surgery. That's great. I'm, uh, I'm doing some Surg Onc right now, so it's kind of nice. We just had a couple morning neck cases, a little thyroid, and then, uh, came on out of there. So it's, uh, you know, ideal day for me, I guess. Those are awesome cases. They're very satisfying if if done if done well, they're very satisfying. Um, so I guess we'll jump right in here. Sure. So my name is Rod Gerardo, uh, general surgery resident, research resident at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. I'm joined today on this episode of the Stay Current Forums with my friend, Nikki. My man, why don't you introduce yourself to the viewers and let them know where you're at? Sounds good. Thanks, Rod. Appreciate the introduction. Uh, my name is Nikhil Shah. I'm actually a general surgery resident over at University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. Um, a little island off, uh, off the coast of Houston, if you will. Um, I, again, third year, uh, with an interest in pediatric surgery. Um, and with that interest, I'll be going to the University of Michigan, uh, in July to start a two year stint there, uh, in pediatric surgical critical care and then surgical Innovations research. That was a mouthful, uh, but I hope you got the gist of it. That's awesome. Nikki, it's it's super proud of you. I think that's like really I I think that when you think of pediatric surgery, academic surgery, uh, Mott Children's, obviously, is like, you know, a powerhouse. So that's amazing that you're going. Congratulations. Thanks. I wanted to talk today about a question that I get all the time that I have a terrible answer for that I can't really answer is sometimes when other general surgery residents who are interested in pediatric surgery are like, "Rod, like, you know, it's a dog eat dog world out there. How do I get a dedicated research spot?" And I have to kind of like, almost embarrassingly say to them like, well, uh, I'll tell you that mine fell in my lap. Uh, Dr. Todd Ponsky came and did grand rounds at my home institution and talked about social media and how we could use it for surgical education. And then I talked to him afterwards, and that turned into some phone conversations. And then he was like, I have an opening. Do you want it? And I said yes. So I did not get my position, I think the traditional way that most general surgery residents do. Um, so I'm very, I'm not very helpful in that aspect. Can you talk to me about how you found and landed like, I don't know, a to me, like a really cool, impressive spot for next year? Yeah, absolutely. It's a good question. Uh, first of all, I wouldn't say you kind of landed in your lap. I mean, you use a little charm, right? A little smile to to to rope him in, you know. Uh, anyway, so, uh, for me, I was a little late to the game. Um, I don't know about the the numbers of it, but a lot of, you know, people interested in pediatric surgery, typically, you know, they write from the get go, they're like, I want to do this, I want to get into it. This is something I've wanted for years. Um, so they have their plans laid out for them. You know, after second year of general surgery residency, they go right into the lab or wherever it may be. Um, so I'm here to kind of set the stand a little different. Um, I decided at the end of my second year, beginning of third year. And I think traditionally, general surgery residents, you know, take time off between years two and three of clinical years to pursue something, whether it's laboratory or or clinical research. And for me, given that I was late, um, I had kind of had to make decisions a little bit quicker than other people did and kind of cut to the chase. So, um, I think choosing a fellowship or a research year or years really comes down to what your goals are in terms of what to achieve in those two years. Um, it's your career goals, your research goals, and then in general, your social and life goals too, because those play into it a lot, I think. Um, some people, you know, I think this would be a great two years to, you know, spend time with my family, get research done, kind of a whole, whole host of things. Um, so that's those are basically things to keep in mind. For me, um, I think I wanted a joint clinical and research, uh, experience. Um, I did not have the strongest research background coming into residency to be honest. Um, I was really good hanging home with the clinical stuff, uh, but did not have a lot of experience crunching numbers or doing data searches, things like that. Uh, so that's what I wanted a little bit of both in here. Um, and for me, critical care is just a really big part of my training, my interests, and then kind of what I want to incorporate into my future practice. Uh, so for me, that was a big play. Yeah, totally. I I a lot of what you said resonates with me because I think that, um, you know, we think we meet so many surgery residents on the, you know, at conferences or on social media who, like you're saying, they knew from the jump that they wanted to do ped surge and I think that they, uh, I don't know, for lack of a better term, you know, they kind of got to white knuckle it a little bit because it is very competitive out there for pediatric surgery fellowship. Um, and if you find out late, like you did, then sometimes it can be really stressful, but it it is possible to find something. Or, in my scenario, I'll tell you that I was planning on doing five years of gen surge and then getting out of there, and I started to learn early on in my residency, I was like, oh, darn, I think I want to be an academic surgeon. And I think that research wouldn't be the worst thing in the world when you think about it, you know, because as far as building your career, like you said, I think the opportunities are are immense. And if you end up at doing, uh, pediatric surgery research at a big institution or really, pretty much most institutions that have, you know, research residents. You know, the opportunities are tremendous. So highly recommend it. Um, You made a couple of good points actually. I just want to jump in real quick is, you know, Please. the um, the whole aspect of, okay, I going through my five years, you know, gen sery's already long as it is and just adding years and years, you know, now with people sub specializing, some sub specializing. Uh, I mean, the list goes on and on and then by the time, you know, you're 10 years later and you blinked and you're, you know, finally done with your training. Uh, but, you know, for me, I also came in the same way. I was vehemently against research. I was like, I want to do my time, I want to get done, get trained, do a fellowship maybe, and then be out of there. But come to think of it, I mean, after experiencing just truly good pediatric surgical rotations and just seeing what this field had to offer, um, taking the two years to learn more about the field, refine myself, refine my interest, uh, seemed like a drop in the bucket honestly, in terms of the the long years anyway. So, you know, my my my thought process has changed significantly in terms of, you know, oh, these two years are everything. But honestly, if it's forwarding your career, if it's doing something you're interested in and will let you live the life you want to live or the career you want to do in 5, 10, 20, 40 years, uh, so be it, you know? Yeah, I 100% agree with you. Um, and I joke all the time that, I mean, you've seen my me on social media, I joke all the time about how, uh, you know, I'm going to be geriatric before I finish all of my surgical training. Um, all like, all of my classmates, it's it's another joke that I have with some of my friends from med school. It's like, it's out of the med school class. It's like, who's going to be the, um, the last one to finish their training? Is it me or is it one of my friends who she's a neurosurgery resident right now on research? And I was like, honestly, I think it's I think I'm going to be the last one in our whole med school class. Rough battle. We'll see. I'll put some bets on that for you. I'll throw some money. Go to Vegas and put some bets on it. Um, let's I want to piggy back off what you just said. Can you give one piece of advice to the general A lot of our listenership is general surgery residents. Sure. Can you give one piece of advice to those surgery residents out there, um, in regards to, uh, finding research or finding, you know, even outside of that, kind of like the cur like what you were saying, the career that fits for them? Yeah, no, definitely. Uh, I think it all starts kind of at your at your home program. So I think you want to kind of take a look at what resources your program has to offer first of all. Uh, talk to mentors, talk to faculty, talk to even chief residents in your program to see what their what their goals are and how they approach them. Um, and then all kind of like I said, starts at home. So see what it there is to offer. Um, sometimes your mentors have connections with other people in other institutions. Um, and they have just pearls of wisdom to hand to you. Um, and that's kind of how I approach it as well, just connections and connections. Um, one thing I will specifically for pediatric surgery, uh, if people are interested, uh, the Actual the APSA website has a phenomenal tab. It's just a great resource. Uh, not only to learn about other pediatric surgery fellowship programs, but also pediatric surgical critical care fellowships, research opportunities. I mean, I I remember the day I basically decide on pediatric surgery, I went to that website and I was just overwhelmed with just information. And it took days and weeks to just sort through it to look at all the opportunities out there from California to Florida to, you know, uh, Michigan. And, um, you know, you got to get organized. You got to get organized quickly, uh, but the APSA website has has it all for you. So, you know, there's really no such thing as too much information, but I I I'd venture to say it's it's, you know, it's overload there, but to a perfect degree. Um, because a lot of these, you know, especially the critical care and even research positions are, uh, what we will outside the match, uh, where you kind of have to do a little bit of talking beforehand, email, get your resume, CV out there, personal statement, letters. So it's the same process in terms of the what you need to apply, just a different format and a different forum. Um, so I think that's something, you know, uh, to look at it if pediatric surgery is what, uh, what what gets you going. Um, and then in terms of just deciding is, you know, what type of experience do I want? You know, if you've had a lot of experience with research already, then maybe two to three years of research is not what you want, but instead a clinical, a clinical fellowship. Um, that some people do, you know, at at Cincinnati at, uh, at Michigan in terms of fetal surgery, uh, they have pediatric surgical critical care. They even have, uh, certain colorectal surgery fellowships. I know at, uh, you know, at at children's national, things like that, um, that you can gain clinical experience, uh, instead of the research research heavy, uh, route. Um, and like I said, you just kind of look within yourself and see what what do I need to make myself well rounded? What do I want to gain from these experiences to make myself a better physician, a better resident, a better fellow, and then eventually a better pediatric surgeon, I think. Ultimately, that's ultimately, that's the goal, right? Is we want to be a better, we want to be the best possible pediatric surgeon for that patient that we're going to care for, when we're attendings in another decade probably. So, uh, with that, uh, this was awesome. I love this conversation. I can't wait to have more with you. Um, So, you also made a good plug for Children's National colorectal, uh, fellowship. There are a lot of good clinical fellowships out there. We even have a podcast with their clinical colorectal fellows right now, called the Colorectal Quiz. So, um, the other subset of types of, uh, academic, I don't know, fellowships or or surgeons out there. I think I fall into this category and and Dr. Todd Ponsky fall to this category of now academic content creators. So, uh, we'll have more episodes like this coming for you guys and we have more topics. We have so many things to unpack. The complexity of a general surgeon in 2020, can't wait to speak with you more. Thanks for coming, man. Definitely. Thanks for having me. It's a great experience. Looking forward to uh deliver some more good content.